Vittoria speaks again tonight in Perugia


I have sent someone to see Amanda’s cellmate Vittoria tonight in Perugia, as I am currently in London. Vittoria is jubilant that her evening curfew has just been lifted and she is a totally free woman. My envoy asked her some questions about dates and details to try and stem to tide of doubters.
She says she was in Capanne from 2006 to 2009, I am unsure as to whether she was in a different prison before that. Amanda joined her in her cell after Meredith’s murder and they spent more than a year living together until Vittoria was released. Vittoria’s daughter, Maria, was diagnosed with lymphoma in June 2007, and Vittoria made regular visits to see her in hospital, returning to Capanne at night. Vittoria says she remembers Rosa who also shared the cell with them for a time but not Florisbella. She claims that there were many foreigners with complicated names that the inmates couldn’t pronounce, and they inevitably changed their names to Italian names, and this may have been one of them. Vittoria says their other cell mate, Sabina, is now out of prison and I am planning an interview with her. Another intimate, another view, another set of eyes. Vittoria said tonight, I have to say again that Amanda never appeared to mourn Meredith, but when Meredith’s face came up on TV she always said she was her best friend. She never seemed preoccupied or distressed in prison the way you would imagine a young girl would be. She was serene, relaxed and said she was always assured by her lawyer that she would walk, it was just a matter of time.

She didn’t flirt with anyone in the prison and had no physical contact with anyone, nothing like that. But she received sackfuls of fan mail and even love letters. She talked about her American boyfriend back in Seattle and said he was her real boyfriend, not Raffaele.
What I feel and always felt is that she’s guilty, Vittoria said. She’s an actress. She knows how to manipulate and play with people. Many of us in the prison felt that. She has that gift of charm, she knows how to make people believe her, but we saw her every day and we didn’t like who she really was.

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126 Responses to “Vittoria speaks again tonight in Perugia”

  1. Not the MachineNo Gravatar Says:

    From your first story – “Her mother occasionally brought her food at the beginning, she didn’t share with us, then later she only brought books. My nine-year-old daughter, Maria, developed lymphoma and I got permission to visit her in hospital. When I got back at 10pm our other cell mate, Sabina, was waiting up to ask how Maria was, comfort me and make coffee.

    I was devastated and weeping. Amanda pretended to be asleep and then sat up and started moaning at us: “Be quiet, I need to sleep.” even though she knew my situation. From that moment on we turned up the TV whenever she came on the news, as a protest for her lack of kindness.”

    Now she says that Maria was diagnosed 5 months before Amanda moved into the cell. This was an obvious inaccuracy. Did other recollections also suffer?

  2. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    Well, yes. The “three long years” as Amanda’s cell-mate turns out to be one or a little more than one. She also said her daughter got sick in June 2007 and she went to the hospital to visit her and the first article says when she got back from the visit Amanda was there. But Amanda was not in prison in June 2007. Very strange. I have to say she sounds somewhat confused about things.

  3. Sharon FeinsteinNo Gravatar Says:

    Maybe so on these technical details, but the fact remains that she was in the same cell as Amanda day in and day out for long enough to get a strong impression of who she was and how she conducted herself. That’s the important stuff, not the exacts dates. I don’t think Vittoria is a rocket scientist but she is a genuine and actually very likeable person from the couple of hours I spent with her

  4. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    Sharon. I think a mom knows when her child got sick. That part of her story very likely is not true because Amanda was not even in Italy, much less in prison at that time. If on the other hand she doesn’t really remember when her child got sick then her memory is not very reliable.

  5. BreeNo Gravatar Says:

    The woman had a very sick child, and some people are expecting her to remember little details that in the grand scheme of things, don’t matter. She was probably thinking about when she returned from ONE of her visits to the hospital – get over it.

    It’s not that big of a deal…except to the Foxy Knoxy Fans.

    Thank you Sharon. Again.

  6. Not the MachineNo Gravatar Says:

    Sharon, she led you to believe that Amanda had no sympathy for her on return from her first visit to her very ill daughter. In fact, when I read your story I was under the impression that this happened after some time period of sharing the cell. The graph started by talking about Edda bringing food that Amanda didn’t share and then food stopped and books were the replacement. So after living together for some time, she had no feelings for the tragedy of the little girl becoming ill.

    Now the story is that on return from a regular visit to her daughter, Amanda was grumpy when awakened. Quite a bit different.

  7. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    Or maybe she has Amanda confused with a different prisoner at least on this particular story. Is one year vs three years spent as Amanda’s cell-mate a little detail as well?

  8. Sharon FeinsteinNo Gravatar Says:

    of course she knows when she child got sick. she was clear about it tonight. 2007. She visited her child in hospital repeatedly when Amanda was sharing her cell and when she returned at night she was cold shouldered by Amanda. Two things are of note here, I conducted the interview in Italian and I am not Italian so may well have made mistakes where dates are concerned. The second thing is this is really a diversion, is it not? To my mind its way down the line of what’s significant here. I kept my word and went back to Vittoria tonight to clear up some of your niggly detail questions, now let’s focus on the bigger issue, the way she was within those four walls in the yes of two people who shared her daily life. Or are you doubting that Antonelli’s details are correct too and therefore her strong impressions of Amanda must be unjustified along with them.

  9. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    Yes, Sharon. I have many doubts about Vittori. By all other accounts, Amanda was well liked by her fellow inmates and was cheered upon her release. Vittoria’s story sounds to me to be vindictive in nature. She has already shown some exaggeration with the “three long years”. Or is that a translation error as well?

    The other part of this story is Amanda’s accusation of sexual harassment by a prison official. That is more important than Vittoria
    saying some mean things about Amanda’s daily cleaning habits, don’t you think?

  10. BreeNo Gravatar Says:

    I find this post from Rosie, (Thanks Rosie), leaving some mighty big questions. It should not get lost in the shuffle as I am not an expert and find it very troubling. The answers to Rosie’s last 2 questions are the same; obviously, “Amanda Knox”.

    “How can one take an argument seriously when it is not based on the evidence? I wish people would inform themselves of the facts before taking a stance.

    When Meredith was killed she was still wearing her bra and her jeans. Her T-shirt was pulled up. The forensic evidence confirms this as there was blood on her jeans but not on her legs. There was blood patterning on her skin and bra which showed she was wearing it when dying. Somebody removed her clothing after death. The clothing was left on the floor in an area clear of blood.

    Lividity as found by the forensic scientists does not develop in 10 minutes. Livor mortis showed that she had been left on her side wearing her bra. Had she been moved shortly after death a secondary pattern of lividity would have developed. None has ever been discussed by scientists or defence. So it was quite a long time before she was undressed, moved and the scene set for a rape scenario.

    Who would benefit from this staging? Who could afford to wait around secure that none of the flat’s occupants would arrive home?”

  11. LizNo Gravatar Says:

    Frankly, a young woman who sat on her boyfriends lap at the Questura, kissed , laughed and pulled faces, while everyone else was stunned and shocked is a young woman who could choose to not inquire about a very sick child at how her mother felt. The behavior was witnessed at the police station and is not disputed. Why would we expect anything different? In that extreme situation at the station Ak was able to tune out all around her while she carried on with RS.

  12. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    Just Rose, not Rosie.

    Bree,
    Massei was clearly not buying that one. You must be talking about Guede’s first trial (Micheli). That is the one that Guede’s lawyers were happy with anything the court came up with that pointed to more than Guede as being responsible. This wasn’t even a claim made by the prosecution in the trial of AK and RS.

  13. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    Liz,
    No matter what she did people were going to say that it made her look guilty. Even silly stuff like that.

  14. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    Sharon said: “She visited her child in hospital repeatedly when Amanda was sharing her cell and when she returned at night she was cold shouldered by Amanda. “

    So Amanda gave her the cold shoulder every time? I had the impression this happened once? How many times did this happen?
    This story is growing even bigger.

  15. BreeNo Gravatar Says:

    RoseMontague,

    I was referring to Rosie’s post from Sharon’s prior blog entry – it was 2nd from the bottom, last time I checked.

    Did you think I called YOU Rosie? That’s funny. I thought everyone had finished the last batch of comments – my error.

    I am only talking about Rosie’s post, nothing else.

  16. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    Sorry Bree.

    I guess the point of that previous comment by Rosie is that they staged a real burglary to make it look like a real burglary and staged a sexual assault to make it look like a real sexual assault.

  17. LizNo Gravatar Says:

    Rose , My comment here has really nothing to do with guilt or innocence. I just wanted to say that the girl who fooled around at the Questura was in her own world, consistent with how her inmates viewed her seemingly uncaring. The witnessed behavior at that time was shocking , and that is why I am not surprised by the how she appeared to others in prison. T

  18. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    Liz,
    Then it is a good thing that these other prisoners came to know the real Amanda and not just Vittoria’s Amanda, because they were certainly happy for her. Some people crave contact and reassurance in situations like that. Maybe Amanda is one of those.

  19. BreeNo Gravatar Says:

    RoseMontague,

    Just curious – just how do you know for sure that all the fellow inmates were happy for Amanda Knox? Did they tell you?

    Maybe they were cheering because she was leaving.

  20. LizNo Gravatar Says:

    Are you talking about her behavior at the station ? Letting someone put their arm around you maybe. Kissing joking making faces while on his lap. Laughing saying minaccia( threat ) over and over between kisses. That seems like someone who was not going to let a thing like a murder spoil her romantic time with RS, rather than someone frightened looking for reassurance.

  21. rosieNo Gravatar Says:

    When Amanda Knox was asked how she felt on 2 November, she said: “Shit happens”.

  22. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    Bree said:

    “Maybe they were cheering because she was leaving.”

    Is that what you think?

  23. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    rosie said: “When Amanda Knox was asked how she felt on 2 November, she said: “Shit happens”.”

    That’s a favorite quote from the Machine. It was in a letter to the editor of the Guardian Dec 2009 from someone who said they were a parent of one of Meredith’s friends. If you have the context, I would like to see it, otherwise it is just hearsay.

  24. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    Liz said: “Laughing saying minaccia( threat ) over and over between kisses.”

    I saw that mentioned about Follain’s book. It had to do with the bomb threat and the questioning they went through about that. Must have been a stressful time for them. It’s a shame no tapes and no transcripts have come to light about their many interrogations. I would be interested in hearing Amanda’s side of this one. Other than that it means nothing. Is the case for guilt just examples of stuff like this? There are a lot of people different from the norm, that don’t kill and sexually assault people.

  25. JeffNo Gravatar Says:

    Sharon,

    You do good work and have more patience than me. LOL

  26. Napia5No Gravatar Says:

    I would like to introduce myself as a patient presently in recovery from a paraspinal lymphoma. I became ill in February 2010. From the onset of my symptoms until an astute doctor finally decided to do an MRI, almost 3 months passed. I was notified in May that a mass was discovered and within 2 days, an oncologist sent me for a CT scan, a biopsy of the site and a PET scan. It took weeks. After the initial diagnosis of a type of lymphome was reached, I then suffered through a bone biopsy, a bone marrow biopsy, a colonoscopy, an endoscopy and additional bloodtesting. By the end of July, the final diagnosis was reached, and in August, I began treatment. Start of illness to beginning of treatment took almost 6 months. Want to guess how many times I came home crying in terror during this dark period of my life? When did I get sick with lymphoma? I always say February. My actual, final diagnosis was actually late July, but I knew and was terrorized from May on. So get off the woman’s sick child already. I personally think you are splitting nasty little hairs here.

  27. BreeNo Gravatar Says:

    Napia5,

    I can’t imagine what you’re going through and my thoughts are with you.

    Although never being a patient of a very serious, life threatening disease, I have been by the side of those dear to me. Dates of treatment become irrelevant as the prognosis and treatment plan take over every breathing moment of one’s life, trying to live. This woman was fighting for her daughter’s life, from prison.

    I don’t understand the acute badgering of Amanda Knox’s friends here demanding these ridiculous, unnecessary details.

    Thank you for sharing your story. I’m sure it was difficult.

    On another note, I can’t reconcile why Rudy Guede would trash and buglarize Filomena’s room, leave no traces of himself, and only steal some of her makeup.

  28. Another Bill WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    Thanks for this, Sharon. It is interesting and can be part of a larger colour piece, as you earlier indicated. I hope you get opportunity to interview other Perugians – Meredith’s boyfriend, perhaps people who knew Guede.

    Actually, your piece makes me feel for Vittoria. I do not say that to discount anything she said abouy Amanda – I mean, we all have the right to an opinion, esp. by people who shared a cell. It’s hardly labratory conditions – that’s my only somment as to the ability to discern someone’s “real character”. Vittoria herself seems to have gone through a lot – I mean, being in jail with a sick child outside gives me the willies to consider. That comment goes for her, too, I mean is the “Vittoria” who’s living under those conditions the “real” Vittoria either? Still, it was what it was.

    Hope things go well in making other contacts!

  29. Napia5No Gravatar Says:

    Thank you, Bree. My point in sharing was, as incredibly difficult as it was, it pales in comparison to the thought of how I would have reacted if it had been my daughter instead of me and I wasn’t able to be with her. Nothing could be worse.
    As far as the makeup goes, I don’t get it either. Maybe it’s a guy thing.

  30. Naseer AhmadNo Gravatar Says:

    I agree with Napia5. This obsessive, passive agressive nitpickery of the time when Vittoria was in Capanne is not only badgering, it is badgering as a way of discrediting Vittoria to cast doubt on what she had to say.

    That Amanda Knox was cold, calculating, self-absorbed, and had poor hygienic habits. Does that prove she committed murder? No.

    Does it help corroborate the recollections of other witnesses of Knox’s behaviour after the murder and that she had lied about having a shower in the cottage? Yes, and I can see why the Fans of Amanda are in full cover up mode about that.

    And if you want to call Vittoria or anyone else a liar, do so, without your usual passive agressive debating styles that fool no one.

  31. FrankNo Gravatar Says:

    Many of you seem to be missing the point. In the original interview she said three years and now it’s down to one, maybe a little longer. That is called exaggeration, and when people start doing this credibility starts to decline. When she made the accusation about returning from learning of her child’s illness, the point was this was new news and Amanda was cold about it. But now we learn this wasn’t new news, so the whole point of Amanda being cold over this revelation isn’t a point at all. You can call it nitpicking if you like, but I tend to think of it as evidence that Vittoria is not being truthful. And by that I don’t mean about her opinion, as you can’t be “not truthful” about your own opinion of someone. But she could be lying about *why* she formed this opinion, and that’s very important if people are going to take what you are saying as evidence of certain personality or behavioral traits of Amanda.

    Bree, Rosie’s post over in the other thread was factually in error, at least unless she can provide references to back it up. I find no mention of livor mortis on Meredith that proves she was moved onto her back after livor mortis was set elsewhere. Further, I find no evidence that there is a ‘tanning effect’ from blood on her legs caused by her pants being on at the time of death. I welcome you, Rosie or anyone else to post references to support her claims. Otherwise, it seems like more of the unsubstantiated ‘facts’ we are always hearing about in this case.

  32. FrankNo Gravatar Says:

    Sharon,

    Interesting that you included a picture of prison chaplin Father Saulo ­Scarabattoli. Perhaps you should try to get an interview with him as he clearly will paint for you a very different picture. Here are some comments ascribed to him from the DM;

    Yesterday the prison chaplain backed her bid for freedom and said the 24-year-old American ­“really does feel the pain of Meredith’s loss”.

    Father Saulo ­Scarabattoli said: “It was just a usual Saturday for us – Amanda played the guitar and joined in the singing of the hymns as she does every Saturday at Mass. She was very hopeful of being freed and at the same time also very anxious.

    “I hope the truth comes out – and I truly believe that she is innocent of this terrible murder and should be cleared. She is ­suffering physically and mentally.”

  33. Naseer AhmadNo Gravatar Says:

    It is nitpicking if you use it to ignore the central points of her interview. Was she in the prison, probably in the same block as Amanda for three of the years? Yes, and if you want to impugn the truth of that, you interview your own witnesses. (I think Frank Sfarzo would be happy to help)

    Was Vittoria in the same cell as Amanda Knox for a long enough period of time to arrive at the conclusions she did? It seems so, and I find that more credible than your assertions, because, you haven’t spoken to any one. I would even be happy to accept the story about the prison inmates cheering for Amanda upon her release, once you find a credible first hand witness and speak to them.

  34. FrankNo Gravatar Says:

    Naseer,

    Vittoria made a big issue of how cold Amanda was. To this point she told of a story of, upon returning to the prison having learned of her daughter’s illness for the very first time, Amanda was unsympathetic. To me, this IS evidence Amanda was cold. However, we then learn this isn’t what happened.

    This isn’t to say I don’t believe Vittoria felt Amanda was cold. But I do question whether HER opinion justifies putting the ‘cold’ label around Amanda’s neck. What if the real reason she says Amanda was cold was because Amanda clearly wasn’t sympathetic to her smoking habit and was a bitch for always complaining about it. She wasn’t making minor mistakes (nits), these are major mistakes or down right fabrications. What’s her motive for this?

    Let me put it another way… if you call me an idiot and you cite 10 reasons why you feel this way, and I prove all 10 of those reasons were lies or exaggerations, that doesn’t make me ‘not’ an idiot, but it does mean no one should take YOUR word for it. Amanda might be cold, but I’m not taking Vittoria’s word for it because she’s proven to me her rationale for that opinion was based on a lie.

  35. LaraNo Gravatar Says:

    Very Interesting. I do believe in her innocence though which you know obviously! Who knows what she is like as a person?

  36. Bill_WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    How is Amanda simultaneously charming and able to make people believe her, yet at the same time smelly, obnoxious, and unable to make anyone believe her in the early years after her arrest?

  37. diocletianNo Gravatar Says:

    Hi Sharon–Thank you for the follow up. Could you let us know what crime Vittoria was locked up for? Thanks.

  38. Name (required)No Gravatar Says:

    Frank et al,

    For heavens sake, Sharon already told on December 4th that she had made errors in her initial article. Vittoria has not lied about anything, it’s obviously Sharon that has misinterpreted or gotten some facts wrong.

    Remember also that the interview was conducted in Italian and Sharon who is not totally fluent AFAIK in Italian, wrote the interview in English (yes, I know a translator/ interpreter was also involved). It’s very easy to make mistakes when translating, and also to get some nuances strong as all following this case must have noticed by now- I’m referring to the back and forth translations of Knox’s diary entries.

    This is what Sharon wrote on Dec 4:

    “that is a very good point bill and I’ve just gone over the transcripts. the nine-years-old is an error which i should have checked in the final published copy and for which i apologise to the readers. this is a direct transcripts from the tape recording with vittoria- My Daughter is Maria, 14 now, who developed lymphoma when she was 9-years-old. All I wanted was to go out and be with her. Although Amanda did many things I didn’t like I didn’t complain or really rebel because I didn’t want to get a bad report and hinder me getting out.”

    Sharon also transcribed Vittoria’s words regarding her incarceration, same date (see the comments sections of the previous posts):

    “I came out in 2009,. On 1st November 2011 I’m totally free, at the moment from 10 pm till 9am I must be in the house.”

    So it’s clear that Vittoria is not the one who stated that it was after the first visit to see her sick daughter that the Knox being uncaring incident happened.

    It’s interesting to read what Knox’s fellow inmates think of her, but it has no bearing on her guilt. At least, at the moment I think so.

    Diocletian,

    Very nicely and innoccently asked. Then when you get the information, you use it to attack and demean Vittoria because she dared to give an interview and tell her opinion of Knox. You are a nice person, Diocleatian.

    I would presume she was in for something similar to Knox, manslaughter or murder, if the sentence was as long as 14 years, out earlier on good behaviour.

    Sharon, I think Capanne is a fairly new facility, opened about 3-4 years ago, that’s probably why Vittoria spent there only 3 years, probably transferred there from some other prison. Can’t find a source, but I’ve definitely read about Capanne being modern and new in the Amanda Knox related articles. Maybe your translator knows more about it?

  39. LizNo Gravatar Says:

    Frank , Amanda exhibited the worst kind of behavior at the police station. No one is disputing that she sat in RS’s lap joked kissed and made funny faces. Please don’t try to say it was her reaction to stress my 6 year old would know better. This is a person who clearly could behave in the manner that Victoria describes. As RoseM said it does not mean guilt but it sure gives an indication as to how self centered she was.

  40. Bill_WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    I’m not sure what you mean by ‘nobody’ Liz.

    I’m sure we’ll hear Amanda and Raffaele’s verson in their forthcoming books.

  41. Bill_WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    This extract from amandaknoxappeal.blogspot.com

    <<>>

  42. Bill_WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    oops, that didn’t work.

    “Prison life was hard for Amanda during her first couple years in Capanne. It was a lonely existence- not knowing the Italian language well- and it has been reported that the other women inmates, or the majority of them anyway, would not speak to Amanda and ignored her. This was in part due to the charges against her, but also because she was an American who seemed to be the focus of a lot of attention from the media. If it was jealousy or simply to send a message that you are no better than us- she was shut out by the majority of the other inmates. Amanda stayed to herself but surely this must have hurt her deeply. Cast into prison as a murderer, and black-balled by her fellow inmates- One can only imagine the pain and loneliness.”

  43. LizNo Gravatar Says:

    Bill I have never read anything that disputes the behavior at the station , that’s all.

  44. marcusNo Gravatar Says:

    Liz but where did you read there was an inventory kept of RS’s apartment giving them motive to return the murder weapon? Did they cut bread after the murder using the knife? Maybe made some sandwichs with the murder weapon that they’d just slashed poor Meredith with?

    Do you know how absurd all this sounds but to believe in guilt they engaged in a crime staging conspiracy yet intended to keep the actual murder weapon to eat wtih? huh?

  45. Bill_WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    Liz says: “Bill I have never read anything that disputes the behavior at the station , that’s all.”

    No you haven’t. And why is that? Because the two most significant people there were muzzled by the Italian legal system for four years.

    Not for much longer.

  46. LizNo Gravatar Says:

    As far as understanding a decent amount of Italian I’m sure Amanda could. She studied Italian as far back as high school and had a gift for languages. I spent a year in Italy at her age. Within 2 months I was understanding enough to get by without having studied anything before. The Italians are gracious and enjoy foreigners efforts.

  47. Bill_WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    marcus says: “Liz but where did you read there was an inventory kept of RS’s apartment giving them motive to return the murder weapon? ”

    Nowhere. it’s a fantasy. Nobody has any idea whether the kitchen knife belonged to Sollecito or the flat, or whether there was any such inventory.

  48. FrankNo Gravatar Says:

    Liz, I can’t recall sources right now, nor do I have the time to dig, but will later tonight if this blog is still active and it’s still an open issue. But I’ll add at least two different twists to the ‘station behavior’ that I know I’ve read (pending source, could be meaningless)…

    Re; sitting in Raffaele’s lap. Amanda was pacing incessantly and Raffaele pulled her onto his lap to basically hold her and calm her down. It was not a light hearted moment.

    Re; cartwheels. I had read that Amanda was doing so yoga stretches and was actually asked by a police(wo)man if she could do a cartwheel. IOW, she was stretching, which many of us do when we’ve sat to long or are nervous and the cartwheel was per a request.

    I don’t know about the joking, kissing and making funny faces. Do you know who witnessed this and where it is documented?

    Sorry.. don’t mean to write and run. Really just wanted to again raise the issue of context and interpretation. As far as I know none of us were with them when any of this happened. So we are at the mercy of those who were, or those who know someone who knew… you get the point. I’ve always found the kissing incident a great example. Everyone wanted to read uncaring, disrespect and tasteless into it but later both would say it was Raffaele consoling Amanda. If you watch the video and see their faces before and after, I think we can pretty much believe that. But without that video you’d have believed these were two ‘could-care-a-less’ kids, lovin and smoochin just outside the cottage where Meredith lay murdered. How easy to smear someone with mild twists and modifications to an event. Easier still when there is no recorded evidence.

  49. marcusNo Gravatar Says:

    One of the things thats rarely discussed regarding the real knife is did Rudy take it home and despose of it after cleaning up at his apartment but before heading out dancing or did he need to get rid of it almost immediately after leaving the cottage similar to the phones? I’m still at a loss over that unsolved aspect of the crime.
    I’m purely speculating here but I think he got rid of it before he arrived back at his apartment to change clothes. It was just to risky to keep it in his possession.

  50. LizNo Gravatar Says:

    Bill RS rented flat came furnished with kitchen items, and cutlery Those items did not belong to him so yes someone could question their location if they wanted to in the event of an investigation.

  51. marcusNo Gravatar Says:

    Liz, I’ll give you credit for at least wishing to discuss the evidence and not retreat to the echo chamber like most of the guilters do but please cite a reference for the fact their was an inventory kept and thats the logic behind why they decided to keep the murder weapon. Asides from the fact even if there was an inventory it’s absurd to believe they would keep the weapon when so many other innocent options were available anyways, it’s even more absurd to keep it if there wasn’t an inventory.

    Lets be honest here. Did the pmf echo chamber just make up the inventory excuse and you fell for it?

  52. Bill_WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    Liz says: “Bill RS rented flat came furnished with kitchen items, and cutlery Those items did not belong to him so yes someone could question their location if they wanted to in the event of an investigation.”

    You don’t know that. Where is the source?

  53. LizNo Gravatar Says:

    Marcus I was actually responding to Frank. I did not say that there was a printed inventory, I said those items including the knife belonged to the landlord. I made a point earlier that the knife could have been taken to the cottage to play a joke, I never said it was intended to be the murder weapon or that the murder was premeditated. So again, no written inventory o.k just a knife that belonged to the landlord. A knife that could have been taken originally for the purpose of a game and was only returned when the game went too far.

  54. Bill_WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    Liz, how do you know those items belonged to the landlord, Sollecito, or were perhaps just left there by the previous tenant?

    What is your source for this information?

    You don’t have one do you? Because you’re just making this up.

  55. ScottNo Gravatar Says:

    Does anyone have word if Flores De Jesus will or when release another book? In the preface of her current book she mentioned she had more material to Amanda but was withholding it till after Amanda’s appeal. It would be an interesting comparison with what Victtoria has stated.

  56. ScottNo Gravatar Says:

    Liz,
    Maybe the knife was taken to the cottage for a prank. But there is no real evidence Amanda or Raffaele ever left his apartment the night of the murder. So anything else is just speculation. And how would they even know Meredith would even by herself at the cottage. Meredith’s normal pattern was to stay out late going to bars with the British girls.

  57. marcusNo Gravatar Says:

    Why did they want to play a game after she got the night off work? Is there anyone from her background who provided direct evidence that she was into playing these sort of games? Why did they team up with a perfect stranger RG to assist in this game? He didn’t come from the same social circle. RS didn’t even know him. Why get the night off work in the first place and even go to the cottage?

    You still haven’t cited anything to suggest there was an inventory of his apartment and thats the reason they kept the murder weapon after comitting a staging conspiracy and presumedly ate with the knife after the murder. we’re getting more and more absurd here. How did she get 1 guy she knew 7 days and one guy she;d met once to kill her flatmate? Why hasn’t RG turned on her? Why did RG say she wasn’t there during the Skype call?

    Was she simply a witch on a broomstick controlling her 2 gimps to do as she says? I’m not being flippant. It’s a serious serious. How do you get 2 men to committ this crime and leave no evidence of RS and AX but yet RG is there?

    Finally, how in your sum of all the inconsistencies analysis do you ignore Rudy’s previous criminal history of breaking in via the 2nd story and also being found with a knife? I really want to know.

  58. LizNo Gravatar Says:

    Marcus, I just caught up with earlier posts. My information about the furnished flat came from another site from a poster who seemed pretty confidant in that information. He also said RS had a cleaning service and supplies included with the rent. If you find out a different version about the owner of the knife I would be interested.

  59. Bill_WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    Are you kidding me Liz?

    An anonymous poster on a site you refuse to name claims the cutlery in Sollecito’s flat belongs to the landlord and you expect people to believe this? Why?

  60. Bill_WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    An anonymous poster on a site i refuse to name claims Liz is a sex killer.

    The poster seemed pretty confident in that information so you should just believe me.

  61. BreeNo Gravatar Says:

    “Liz, how do you know those items belonged to the landlord, Sollecito, or were perhaps just left there by the previous tenant?

    What is your source for this information?

    You don’t have one do you? Because you’re just making this up.”

    Liz is absolutely correct. If you view the actual crime scene video of the investigators searching Sollecito’s flat, there is a close up of them holding the paper with the inventory of items that were furnished with. I think the video is on YouTube, but I don’t have time to go find it for you right now. I believe it is also referred to in the translated court transcripts on one of the websites.

  62. Bill_WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    Bree says: Liz is absolutely correct. If you view the actual crime scene video of the investigators searching Sollecito’s flat, there is a close up of them holding the paper with the inventory of items that were furnished with.”

    So if if it’s on the inventory, why take that knife? why not just buy one or use one found at the cottage?

  63. KaosiumNo Gravatar Says:

    Liz, the knife didn’t match the wounds or the outline on the bed and tested negative for blood. When Conti and Verchiotti tested it again they found starch near the base of the blade, which precludes that blood was ever on that knife and cleaned off, otherwise the blood would have left traces in the starch. There’s no reason to think that knife left the drawer that night, the idea that all traces of blood could be removed but a scrap of DNA left was ludicrous to begin with, finding the starch eliminated it completely.

    There is literally no reason to think that knife was used in the murder, even if that DNA did not get there from contamination from handling, the lab or machine, it could easily have happened through secondary transfer, Amanda wiping the knife on her sleeve as she put it away to dry it, being as she lived with Meredith something might have adhered to her sleeve, we’re talking about 10 or less trillionths of a gram of biological material never identified as anything other that ‘not blood’ which suggests if anything was transferred it was skin cells anyway.

    In a case like this where the murder weapon is not found, finding that little DNA on a knife in a drawer a quarter mile away that doesn’t match the wounds or a known outline of the murder knife which tests negative for blood, and there’s evidence blood could never have been on the knife, does not mean there were ‘two knives’ used when all the wounds are compatible with a smaller knife. It means they found DNA on a knife that couldn’t have been the murder weapon but presented it in court anyway. As such it is merely evidence against the prosecution, evidence presented which undermines the integrity of their case and calls into question their forensic acumen for even pretending it could have been.

  64. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    I will watch the entire police video from Raffaele’s again when but I don’t remember that. I do remember them holding up some receipts for the camera (no bleach receipt however). From what I remember, the whole inventory list thing was just speculation. The knife was not exactly an expensive brand and could have been easily replaced and I believe Frank spoke about this on one of his posts.

  65. LizNo Gravatar Says:

    O.k Bill last time, if the knife was taken with the intent to fool around or play a joke it would not have to be returned as it would not end up part of any investigation. If that scenario changed with the unfortunate murder then it would have to be returned. Kaosium, I believe there is evidence of more than one knife used. Possible that the one at RS’s was used as well in the attack. I think I will wait for the Hellman report which might to explain the discrepancies with the different expert opinions.If the DNA is completely unreliable then there is still a need to explain all the other forensic evidence.

  66. Bill_WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    How do you ‘fool around’ or play a joke with a knife?

    There’s no such thing. threatening someone with a knife is a crime, not a joke.

  67. Bill_WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    and if you’re planning a crime, you don’t pick a weapon you can’t throw away. Q.E.D.

  68. Naseer AhmadNo Gravatar Says:

    Until the Hellmann Report is published, then all statements by the Fans of Amanda about what evidence has been discounted, is speculative at best.

    Absolute statements about DNA findings by the court ‘experts’ are hopey wishful thinking.

    We do not know whether the judge released them based on reasonable doubt or not. His subsequent statements were confused, to say the least.

    Until then, we do know that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were present in the cottage at the time of the murder.

  69. Not the MachineNo Gravatar Says:

    Sharon, one reason people care about the accuracy of small details in this case is because certain groups take anything printed and repeat it no matter how dubious the source.

    They have repeated hundreds of times that Amanda was involved in a prank in Seattle. The story is that she organized a prank on a roommate that scared the roommate as Amanda and friends entered the apartment wearing masks. The source of this was a comment on a blog of an alternative newspaper. No prankee has come forward.

    Then there is the only “brush with the law” Amanda had had before Perugia, the noise ticket. This minor event, it was settle the same way a parking ticket is handled by paying the fine by mail, was reported by a british tab as being a wild party that needed numerous policemen to quell. In fact, it was handled by one lone cop.

    Even though it has been shown that Vittoria wasn’t a cellmate at the time her daughter was diagnosed, it will be repeated hundreds of times to attack Amanda’s character. This goes with the bleach receipt, the mop and bucket, the middle of the night laundromat, the seven Italain lovers, the wild party, the Seattle prank, the car park video, the “I was there” and more.

    It would be a step in the right direction for you to correct the article stating that Amanda wasn’t a cellmate when the diagnosis took place.

  70. KaosiumNo Gravatar Says:

    Thank you for following up Sharon! :)

    I think the additional knowledge explains some things. Vitorria was incarcerated with Amanda only a short portion of her stay at Capanne, and it was when she first got there and could barely speak the language, all the while the news pummeling her with untrue reports from the police and prosecution, which it appears Vittoria was especially interested in and made sure Amanda heard every word from her account. It doesn’t sound like she gave Amanda the benefit of the doubt she might be innocent and not the person the police and prosecution said she was, instead she made her life miserable and thought that justified it.

    It also clears up the matter of the sick child. Even in Vitorria’s account Amanda never said anything about the child, it was Vitorria who made that connection, not Amanda who just wanted some quiet. Apparently Vittoria thought any complaints by Amanda were her not being properly sympathetic about her child, while she was free to do anything to depress or antagonize Amanda in perpetuity.

    Perhaps she was quite charming to interview in front of the warden, but I don’t think Vitorria’s own account makes her sound like a very fun person to have to spend just about every waking hour with. What’s more interesting is why the warder produced this particular inmate from early in Amanda’s stay who obviously reviled her and bought into the prosecution’s script at this juncture.

    Reading this blog the last few days has reminded me of something: there’s a lot of people out there who jumped to misjudgments about the murder early in the case when it appeared Amanda must have been guilty who aren’t especially willing to admit they might have been misled by those false accounts. It would be terribly embarrassing for them if it turned out Amanda wasn’t actually the monster Mignini created in everyone’s mind, and most wouldn’t want to live with the thought they treated Amanda so poorly if she was just an innocent student caught up in a tragic injustice and used and abused horribly as result of that.

    It won’t change the reality though. Amanda and Raffaele were arrested along with Patrick Lumumba after an all-night interrogation session by twelve cops that produced two vague and confused ‘confessions’ that were soon to be thrown out by the Italian Supreme Court. The ‘evidence’ was things like the text messages between Patrick and Amanda and that his SMS card indicated he was in the vicinity of the cottage when the murder happened, and his till didn’t show activity until much later than he opened.

    All of that ‘evidence’ was coincidental or mistaken, it turned out Mignini had just ‘theorized’ from out his posterior that there had been a ritualistic sex-killing with no evidence to suggest that, the forensics weren’t even complete. When the forensic report was issued it showed traces of only one man, Rudy Guede, and utterly nothing of Raffaele, Amanda and Patrick, the three they had already arrested and made a huge display of themselves in doing so and caught the attention of the world’s media.

    Had they done the right thing and admitted to their mistake we wouldn’t be talking about this now, but they chose instead to pretend their original theory which was based on no evidence was still true, and swapped out Rudy for Patrick and prosecuted the three of them and tried to find ‘evidence’ it could still be true.

    The reality is, if there’s a rape-murder with evidence of a break-in and a known burglar is caught with his evidence all over the scene, it is highly probable that the burglar broke in and was interrupted, not that he conspired with two of the three people in custody that he barely knew who were arrested on mistaken or coincidental evidence and then they staged the break-in for him.

  71. Not the MachineNo Gravatar Says:

    “We do not know whether the judge released them based on reasonable doubt or not. His subsequent statements were confused, to say the least.

    Until then, we do know that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were present in the cottage at the time of the murder.”

    Really? How do you know they were there during the murder?

    I’d say Hellmann made it pretty clear that no staged break in occurred and that the kids were innocent of all the charges with the exception of the calunnia.

    When the first trial ended only the Massei report was accepted by them as valid. Now, out-of-context remarks made by the judge are considered significant.

    At a minimum Hellmann will say that there wasn’t sufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they were involved with the murder.

    Apparently “all the other forensic evidence” didn’t add up to proof that they were there and part of criminal behavior.

    The only piece of evidence that needs explaining is the spot of blood with mixed DNA in Filomena’s room. The way the police walked around without changing booties and the fact that all sorts of people went in her room before the body was discovered may explain how the trace was moved there.

    I really don’t see any other evidence that places either of the kids in the cottage the night of the murder.

  72. ScottNo Gravatar Says:

    Liz,
    What evidence is there of more than one knife? The original accounts said one small pocket knife. The knife with Amanda’s DNA and allegedly Meredith’s was too big to make the stab wounds or the bloody impression. In theory in it could have made a slashing wound but so could any knife. Since the DNA of Meredith was non credible by the CV report we can only assume a small knife that was never found made the slashing wound as well.

  73. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    A poster at IIP found the Inventory list on the video and it does include 2 large knives. That does not sound like it would be hard to replace a large knife.

  74. KatodyNo Gravatar Says:

    So, another “Vittoria” article.
    Vittoria’s character as painted by Sharon’s writing looks really unflattering. We see a woman, a serious criminal certainly, 14 years served in prison, much more on the sentence most probably. A woman grown, yet immature and irresponsible. A mother that left a small child to serve her time – possibly even the child was conceived when in jail, more irresponsibly yet.
    Vittoria presents herself as self centred, demanding attention yet lacking empathy:
    At one point she expects Amanda to be grateful for ‘teaching her how to clean’, she expect her attention, to be comforted by her, and takes great offence for not being satisfied. Yet, when she sees Amanda depressed or crying, she dismisses it as acting out.
    Vittoria expresses childish jealousy about AK’s perceived privileges and admits to immature stupid bullying. This is striking because she’s having a seriously ill child at the same time and one would expect her to act more, not less mature and develop some compassion and understanding. Instead the situation seems to be used for gaining “points” – Vittoria revels in pity and attention and is mad when it doesn’t work with the introvert American. Together with her prominent lack of empathy and egotism comes a talent for manipulating people – Sharon reports how Vittoria easily made impression of a sweet and likeable person, an impression that is in contrast with her acts. Interestingly this is something that Vittoria projects at Amanda, among other things

  75. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    I agree with you Katody. What I have learned from Sharon’s articles is there was at least one prisoner that does not like Amanda. I am not sure that is very important in the guilt vs innocence argument, but this has been a nice platform to discuss things with those having an opinion of guilt. Thanks to Sharon for allowing that discussion.

  76. KatodyNo Gravatar Says:

    Kaosium’s post before is excellent. Should have read it instead of labouring my own. Seriously, stop, read and think it through, people..

  77. Not the MachineNo Gravatar Says:

    Yes Scott the original reports said Meredith was killed with a “pen knife”.

    The idea that an inventory of the cutlery would be used to find the weapon seems far far fetched.

    It is certainly possible that murders would put the knife in their drawer afterwards a la the purloined letter. Having said that, I would have expected them to use the bleach Raffaele had in his flat.

  78. BreeNo Gravatar Says:

    “A poster at IIP found the Inventory list on the video and it does include 2 large knives. That does not sound like it would be hard to replace a large knife.” said RoseMontague.

    And after many posts accusing Liz of making this up, do any of you have anything to say to Liz? Good grief.

  79. Not the MachineNo Gravatar Says:

    The inventory is a side issue, however the innocent crew accused Liz and then found the evidence that they were wrong. Good on them.

    I didn’t comment on the inventory but Liz – you were right there certainly seems to an inventory.

    I doubt that it would have been hard to replace the very common knife and really doubt that the inventory would have created a worry.

    More to the point, nothing about the knife would make anybody think it was used in the murder except for the miracle sub LCN DNA found by Stefanoni.

    Liz you were right there was an inventory.

    Now it would be refreshing for members of the pro guilt community to admit that the characterization of Amanda as being cold hearted because of what Vittoria said is specious.

  80. Bill WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    But realistically who cares if there is or is not an inventory? The only thing it does is make sollecitos kitchen knife even more preposterous as a murder weapon.

  81. Napia5No Gravatar Says:

    Curiosity rears it’s head. I understand that the Knox clan hired a PR firm. I have no problem with that. As far as I know it’s not illegal. But I am curious though. Just what exactly was the scope of their involvement? Did they stand on street corners once a month, passing out pictures of a 5-year-old Knox cuddling puppies? Seriously, just what does a PR firm do in this instance?
    Do they only take on clients with stellar personalities? Those people who have been determined to be totally innocent of any crime, including jaywalking? Do they have to believe that their clients are the pillars of their communities before they attempt to present a positive image of them to the world? Do they do surveys to see what percentage of the people they interview believe in the guilt/innocent of their client? Do they have press releases? I really would like to know the answer to this. Just what, exactly did they do for Knox? Any ideas?

  82. Not the MachineNo Gravatar Says:

    according to what they said it was mostly handling media requests and setting up appearances by the parents.

    they surely sent out some press releases and counselled the family on how to respond to questions and keep “on message.”

    they surely didn’t control the reporting of the case as some have contended.

    given that the british tabs went crazy with the story and wrote such utter bull, combined with the leaky ILE a press effort was needed.

  83. LizNo Gravatar Says:

    My impression if Ak’s being cold or narcissistic was formed by her witnessed behavior at the Questura. Victoria’s comments fit with that idea. I am not even talking about the cart wheel which could have been a simple stretch.

  84. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    Bree said: “And after many posts accusing Liz of making this up, do any of you have anything to say to Liz? Good grief.

    It’s a fair question, Bree. Although I didn’t accuse Liz of making it up I did say I didn’t remember it from the video and would check. I think most people interested in the case are interested in getting the facts correct. I give Liz credit for knowing that information. I still learn things I didn’t know about this case despite being interested in it for several years now. I also see things that I thought were true proved to be false and things I thought were false shown to be true.

    If everybody could admit to that when it happens it would be a great start to a reasonable discussion of the evidence.

  85. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    Liz said: “My impression if Ak’s being cold or narcissistic was formed by her witnessed behavior at the Questura. Victoria’s comments fit with that idea. I am not even talking about the cart wheel which could have been a simple stretch.”

    Opinions vary on both sides on the cart-wheel question. I believe it was a cart-wheel. Go figure.

  86. LizNo Gravatar Says:

    I also figured it was an innocent stretch and didn’t place much importance on that part of what was witnessed at the station.

  87. FrankNo Gravatar Says:

    Liz, could you clarify exactly what behavior at the Questura you are referring to? You accept the stretch/cartwheel/whatever wasn’t an issue. There is also the issue of Amanda sitting on Raffaele’s lap, and the explanation that he pulled her onto her lap because she was pacing and he wanted to console her. Do you have an issue with that?

    Beyond that, what else, and where is the source(s) that you are using for this? Thanks…

  88. AmberNo Gravatar Says:

    Frank says: “That is called exaggeration, and when people start doing this credibility starts to decline. ”
    So frank you would agree that after Raffaele gave his interview shortly after merediths body was discovered saying stuff like:
    “It is something I never hope to see again,” he said. “There was blood everywhere and I couldn’t take it all in.”
    He said: “It was a normal night. Meredith had gone out with one of her English friends and Amanda and I went to party with one of my friends.”
    “I couldn’t believe what I was seeing,” he said. “It was hard to tell it was Meredith at first but Amanda started crying and screaming. I dragged her away because I didn’t want her to see it, it was so horrible.
    And so much more…would you agree exaggerating as he was makes him an unbelievable person?

  89. LizNo Gravatar Says:

    Frank I’ve already said had a problem with the lap sitting , laughing kissing and making faces. Bad behavior no excuse. She was not a 5 year old that needed to be held still good grief. If you think that was o.k well that is your opinion.

  90. KaosiumNo Gravatar Says:

    Liz, she was a scared girl barely out of her teens whose roommate had been brutally murdered only yards from where she slept and wanted to be comforted. She only felt safe with Raffaele or at the police station, which is incredibly ironic considering what they did to her.

  91. AmberNo Gravatar Says:

    Kaosium you just called Amanda “a scared girl barely out of her teens”
    Please remember that next time you refer to Rudy Guede who is just 6 months older. He must’ve ran because he was just a scared boy.

  92. LizNo Gravatar Says:

    Yes and she was a 24 year old that just had to go out in public wearing a Halloween costume because she is free to do so. I don’t even care if it was or wasn’t a cat burglar costume. That isn’t even the point, yes tell me she has the right to enjoy her life, fine but If I were to advise her I would have not recommended appearing in a costume so close to the anniversary when the last photo of MK was also in costume. A crime no insensitive very.

  93. FrankNo Gravatar Says:

    Amber, I have no idea what you are talking about. What in any of those statements is an exaggeration? That the view of Meredith’s bloody body was horrific to see? Or that he hoped to never have to see something like that again? Or maybe it was the part about how the night had been a normal night?

    Liz, I was asking what other behaviors were observed, who observed them and where was it documented. Holding someone on your lap is, imo, fine. Laughing and making faces is not. As you said, everyone’s opinion is different. I’m not questioning yours — I just wanted to know where you saw this documented.

    As for the Halloween costume; is Amanda now never to celebrate Halloween, because her friend was murdered the day after Halloween? She did not ask to be photographed. If the media would leave her alone, no one but Amanda and the friends she chose to be with would have even known. Honestly – IMHO – you are making way more out of this than it deserves.

  94. AmberNo Gravatar Says:

    Frank how about the fact that Raffaele supposedly was never in view of Merediths body. Filomena and her friends said Amanda and Raffaele were near the kitchen when the door was broken down. So just how did he know how horrific is was or that Meredith was barely recognizable considering she was covered with a duvet. So which is it frank either he was exaggerating or he did see Meredith after death?

  95. AmberNo Gravatar Says:

    One more thing about the “normal” night…when was the party?

  96. LizNo Gravatar Says:

    Frank we just have different standards as to what is is appropriate and sensitive behavior leave it at that.

  97. FrankNo Gravatar Says:

    I left it at that on my last post. But I am still looking for a reference re; laughing and making faces. Can you help me there?

  98. BreeNo Gravatar Says:

    Hi Frank,

    I tend to believe those who were there at the Police Station, witnessed the strange behavior firsthand, and testified. Here’s an informative article – I’m sure there are more:

    http://www.people.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2011/10/09/mother-of-key-witness-at-meredith-kercher-trial-speaks-of-her-daughter-s-torment-after-amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-aquittal-102039-23476085/

  99. FrankNo Gravatar Says:

    Amber, my comment was the statements themselves would not be considered exaggerations. Based on my understanding of the events of the day of the discovery, if he actually said this I would consider them lies, not exaggerations. However, I find no evidence he ever said this. The only reference I can find where these words are spoken is the recollection of one of Meredith’s friends, Kate Mansey. As with my request to Liz, if you have a reference to where this is directly attributed to Raffaele, I’d love to see it.

  100. BreeNo Gravatar Says:

    Here is another reference to the strange behavior from one who was there and testified, Natalie Hayward.

    Kate Mansey is not one of Meredith’s friends, she is a reporter.

    http://www.vancouversun.com/news/believe+Amanda+Knox+killed+friend/5459452/story.html

  101. AnnellaNo Gravatar Says:

    Bree..you would do well to not give links to sources such as people.co.uk. as it does not help your cause one bit. That is a once weekly British tabloid which revels in squalid reporting. An example from that link ” Unlike Knox, Sollecito has stayed out of the public eye” . A laughable statement given that is what Amanda strives for but the Press ( especially tabloids) dont leave her alone, she is stalked by them and Im positive she longs to be ‘ out of the public eye’. I have not once seen her head deliberately to photographers and pose for photos, if you have please let us know.

  102. AnnellaNo Gravatar Says:

    And Bree, strange behaviour does not a murderer make.

  103. KaosiumNo Gravatar Says:

    Amber, Rudy Guede had embarked on a life of petty crime and garnered himself a reputation as a ‘girl-botherer.’

    He was a *scary* kid just out of his teens.

    Incidentally, why would anyone think that costume was a ‘cat burglar?’ What kind of ‘cat-burglar’ would have their face made up like that? I thought she looked more like a street artist, but who knows if that was even her costume for the night. It might have just been her with the face made up, wearing what she did before she changed. She didn’t *pose* for that camera, some dude following her around snapped it, kinda creepy when you think about it.

    As for the police station, Amanda spent 53 of 89 hours with the police between the discovery of the murder and her effective arrest at 5:45 AM after the signing of the second statement. More than 40 of those hours in about three days she spent at the Questura, voluntarily to help police as much as she could. Those girls left the country and made catty comments to the papers after her arrest.

    She did lots of things in that 40 hours at Questura, a full weeks work for some in three and a half days, including an all-nighter. She was basically living there, either being interviewed or interrogated or waiting for someone else. She couldn’t go home, and was afraid to be alone, she didn’t really have anywhere else to go outside Raffaele’s.

  104. Sally SheaNo Gravatar Says:

    There’s an important context for everything that Vittoria says: she knows Amanda will be writing a book including details of her prison experience. That book won’t reflect well on Vittoria, if you believe Sharon’s interviews. Vittoria has admitted behaving badly — ganging up on Amanda with her cellmate and doing things purposely just to annoy her — but she wants us to believe that she only did these things because Amanda was rude first. In short, she’s trying to justify her poor behavior before Amanda’s book comes out. If Amanda hadn’t been so darn annoying — reading, exercising, and turning down offers of sleeping pills — and, worst of all, confidently asserting that she’d be found innocent and released — Vittoria wouldn’t have had to behave so abominably.

  105. Sally SheaNo Gravatar Says:

    When I hear people insist that Amanda was “strange” — as if that was relevant to a determination of guilt or innocence — I’m reminded once again of the Salem witch trials (or, in Europe, the Inquisition). Many innocent women have been put to death because people thought they were strange. I had hoped “civilized” people had moved beyond that. This case proved to me how far we still have to go.

  106. Chris_HalkidesNo Gravatar Says:

    Bree,

    We already dealt with livor mortis in the previous thread. The short answer is that even one of the prosecution’s expert witnesses did not think that the spot in question was livor mortis, IIUC.

  107. AmberNo Gravatar Says:

    Frank says: “Amber, my comment was the statements themselves would not be considered exaggerations. Based on my understanding of the events of the day of the discovery, if he actually said this I would consider them lies, not exaggerations.”

    Thank you frank for confirming for me why I am able to say Raffaele is not a credible person as I fully believe this interview he gave to press, not one of merediths friends. Maybe you should get your facts straight before calling out Amandas cell mate as none credible when Amanda and Raffaele gave many exaggerated/lies as statements following Merediths murder. Guess it’s another of those double standards that doesn’t apply to the “kids”.

  108. Chris_HalkidesNo Gravatar Says:

    Amber,

    You seem to be putting a great deal of stock in the Kate Mansey article. Do you think that this article is an accurate reflection of what Raffaele really said?

  109. AmberNo Gravatar Says:

    Yes I do I’ve been given no reason not to. In fact I think it’s typical of a young person to exaggerate a little to make their story a better. Unfortunately for Raffaele I think he went a little far with the details.

  110. FrankNo Gravatar Says:

    Amber, there are numerous documented statements from Raffaele describing the night of the murder. He never once mentioned a party with one of his friends. He has consistently said he and Amanda were at his home watching a movie. They had an eyewitness who placed them at his place. There was indisputable evidence of the movie the claimed to have watched being streamed to his computer at his home. No one but Mansey reported this ‘false alibi’ by Sollecito. Why do you think that is?

    There is no question Vittoria made the comments she did – Sharon has them on tape. Does Mansey have a tape recording of her interview? Did the police hear it? If so, why wasn’t this brought up as an example of Sollecito lying at the trial?

  111. SkindNo Gravatar Says:

    “When I hear people insist that Amanda was “strange” — as if that was relevant to a determination of guilt or innocence — I’m reminded once again of the Salem witch trials (or, in Europe, the Inquisition)”

    Personally, I’m reminded of……well, pretty much every person I can think of that’s ever been found not guilty of murder on appeal or retrial.

    Even people that turned out not to be involved at all (most notable recent case being Chris Jefferies) have had/are still having thier behaviour reframed and re-interpreted in the context of ‘obviously’ being a bit of a “right wrong ‘un”.

    That people came forward to suggest that a murder suspect was ‘odd’ and ‘cold’ is a bit like people coming forward to suggest that an animal suspected of being a duck might, in fact, quack a bit.

    It’s odd that Knox is supposedly a great manipulator and actress, yet is supposedly far too cold and distant, all at the same time.

  112. AmberNo Gravatar Says:

    Frank you are right there are numerous documented statements from Raffaele. He did say numerous different things about that night. One can only hope that Hellmann’s reasonings are as good as most of you alls. Of the you are wrong and I’m right variety.

  113. Chris_HalkidesNo Gravatar Says:

    Amber,

    Mansey’s story has a number of errors in it (Amanda is not from Washington, DC, for example. Mansey wrote, “He said: ‘It was a normal night. Meredith had gone out with one of her English friends and Amanda and I went to party with one of my friends.’” This is not quite right with respect to Meredith and ambiguous with respect to Raffaele in the sense that “to party” does not mean the same thing as “to a party.” Mansey wrote, “She never normally locked her bedroom door,” and this sounds as if Luca, not Raffaele were her source. There is also some idiomatic English, such as “straight away,” that sounds like a paraphrase. I think that this article was pieced together from interviews with more than one person and a dollop of creative license. Raffaele and Amanda have had two basic stories, what they said on 5-6 November, and what they said both before and after.

  114. RoseMontagueNo Gravatar Says:

    Chris,
    It seems to me to be another case where the events of 31 October get mixed up with those of 1 November. Seems to happen quite often.

  115. AmberNo Gravatar Says:

    Rose
    It seems more to me that anyone who doesn’t show Amanda and Raffaele in the best light is either
    A. Misinformed
    B. Lying
    C. Exaggerating
    D. Confused
    E. Doesn’t know facts as well as you do
    And Chris the Washington mistake is an easy mistake to make and everything else you say about her article is pure speculation.

  116. Chris_HalkidesNo Gravatar Says:

    Amber,

    You claimed that Raffaele was exaggerating; that is speculation. In the book, “The Fatal Gift of Beauty” Nina Burleigh wrote, “A British reporter for the Sunday Mirror, Kate Mansey, found him in a bar near Piazza Grimani a day before his arrest, and she reported that he said he and Amanda had been “at a party with a friend” on the night of the murder. He never told that story to police, though, and he later denied it in letters to me.” On 14 February 2011 Draca at the JREF forum took Mansey’s article to task for multiple errors: http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6874058&postcount=3936 These errors include Ms. Knox’s age, something that should not have been that difficult to obtain.

    Here is a second article by Mansey: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sunday-mirror/2007/11/11/day-i-met-meredith-suspect-raffaele-98487-20092572/ What do you think of it?

  117. Chris_HalkidesNo Gravatar Says:

    Amber,

    Besides her hometown Ms. Mansey gave Ms. Knox’s age incorrectly, among other things. And she quotes a student as saying, “I know a lot of people who were at the party that night and it seemed they all had a good time.” This sounds like someone who is confusing 31 October with 1 November. Given Ms. Mansey’s multiple misunderstandings, it is more parsimonious to assume that she wrote a composite interview than that Raffaele lied.

  118. Another Bill WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    “As for the police station, Amanda spent 53 of 89 hours with the police between the discovery of the murder and her effective arrest at 5:45 AM after the signing of the second statement. More than 40 of those hours in about three days she spent at the Questura, voluntarily to help police as much as she could. Those girls left the country and made catty comments to the papers after her arrest.”

    This is what I believe – if Knox had similarly immediately left the country, she would never have even been suspected, as there was no physical evidence tying her to the crime.

    Think about it. No text from Lumumba for the police to find, which I believe was the unfortunate trigger to suspecting Knox, and then Sollecito, in the first place. They still may have found a bit of Sollecito’s DNA on the bra-clasp, as that would not have changed the 46-day delay and the mishandling of that piece of evidence, and the police would, in my mind at least, not have taken one knife from Sollecito’s place which had Knox’s DNA and a bit of rye-grain…..

    What if it had been another of the flat mates? Who else was in town on the night of the 1st? Were any out of town without a real alibi? Note, one way to destroy an alibi is to also accuse the person supplying the alibi! Could we have had Romanelli, for instance, being accused if she’s had a text on her phone misinterpreted by police?

    With 20-20 hindsight, we could be typing about another flatmate right now….. and Vittoria could be interviewed as to her reaction to living with one of them.

  119. AmberNo Gravatar Says:

    Actually bill what got her suspected was while she accompanied Raffaele to his questioning as hecwaitedvin the waiting room he said
    “”In my previous statement I told a load of rubbish because Amanda had convinced me of her version of the facts and I didn’t think about the inconsistencies.””

  120. AmberNo Gravatar Says:

    As she waited in* sorry my iPad messed that up

  121. Chris_HalkidesNo Gravatar Says:

    Amber,

    Your comment about what got Ms. Knox suspected is not supported by the events of the previous days. The police were already bugging Ms. Knox and Mr. Sollecito’s conversations previous to 5 November. Dr. Giobbi indicated that he wanted both of them brought in that night. Judge Matteini noted that Amanda’s arrest was effected prior to her mother’s arrival in Perugia to prevent Amanda’s leaving. In at least one interview prior to 5 November the police were yelling at Ms. Knox and treating her like a criminal according to a conversation that she had with Laura. It would be nice to know what brought Raffaele to say what he did. Maybe you buy into the police’s various tales of why their interviews were not recorded, but they just amount to, “The dog ate my homework,” to me.

  122. Chris_HalkidesNo Gravatar Says:

    Amber,

    Suppose that one were to agree with you that what got Ms. Knox suspected was Raffaele’s statement. Then why was she not supplied with a lawyer at that point, according to Italian law?

  123. Clive WismayerNo Gravatar Says:

    Actually, I think it was their strange behaviour which brought them under suspicion, coupled with their presence and behaviour on the morning of 02/11/07 (taking a shower in a bloodbath) and the first impression that the burglary was staged.

    I think Raffaele may be the sort of person whose first reaction to an uncomfortable fact is to lie (not an uncommon type and the fact he did not give evidence at his trial suggests, to me anyway, that his lawyers shared my view) and that Amanda might well make a strange impression on some, especially those who perhaps don’t know her well or don’t share her cultural background.

    Doesn’t make them guilty of murder though and, on a close and careful consideration of the facts, they clearly aren’t. The case gets added to the very large pile of similar miscarriages attributable to unrefined prejudgement.

    I hope Sharon gets to interview more of the characters in this drama, peripheral or central, because there is something of value to be learned from all of them.

  124. Another Bill WilliamsNo Gravatar Says:

    Actually bill what got her suspected was while she accompanied Raffaele to his questioning as hecwaitedvin the waiting room he said
    “”In my previous statement I told a load of rubbish because Amanda had convinced me of her version of the facts and I didn’t think about the inconsistencies.””

    ********************

    Sorry, Amber, that does not cut it. First of all, how do you know this? Is there a recording? Second as pointed out above, the police would never have “interviewed” Amanda, they would have right from the start “interrogated” her, complete with recording and lawyer, as per law.

    And further, they NEVER would have had to suspect Lumumba! They would have thought they already had two suspects, all the suspects they needed: namely Knox and Sollecito.

    Why even drag Lumumba into this, other than the fishing trip of the text-message, and misunderstanding what an American means by “See you later”?

    Please, you cannot just make things up. That’s what got Massei in trouble!

  125. Michael WallaceNo Gravatar Says:

    Hey man I only wanted to take a moment to say i love reading your blog.

  126. The Riviera Times Says:

    The Riviera Times…

    [...]Vittoria speaks again tonight in Perugia | Sharon Feinstein[...]…